Hello. Anvil looks very interesting. We have done some tests and it seems that Anvil could allow us to provide our customers with the telemetry web applications they ask us for. Among other things, the local web server could meet the needs of our customers who do not want their application to be hosted online.
After having read your documentation I have two more questions for you:
1- When we sell a software system to our customers, many of them ask us to add a clause to the contract that states that we commit ourselves in case of termination of our activities to provide them with everything necessary, including the development environment, so that they can continue to maintain/upgrade their software. I read the Anvil license and I did not see such a clause, am I wrong? If this is the case, could you consider adding such a clause to your license to make Anvil even more attractive to companies that need a long-term guaranteed solution.
2- For a telemetry application that records a very large amount of data, is the local web server subject to the same limits of recorded data rows as the online hosting?
We actually got legal advice about something like that but apparently (long story short) a contract like that isn’t enforcible! So the compromise position was that with certain (typically Enterprise) customers, we will enter into an escrow arrangement that will provide them with the necessary source code. Unfortunately these escrow arrangements are fairly expensive, so we can’t include them automatically with every plan, but if you have this requirement then drop us a line at sales@anvil.works.
The App Server enforces no limits on data storage, but if you’re dealing with a truly huge amount of data you might want to consider a time-series database rather than Data Tables / Postgres…
I was expecting to see a mention to the fact that Anvil is now open source.
I am a paying customer and I plan to remain a paying customer, because I value the hosting and support services. It just works. If I have a problem I send an email and the problem disappears. It’s definitely worth being a paying customer.
But as a plan B in case the Anvil company disappears, I would rather rely on managing my own server with the open source Anvil software than embarking in a lawsuit against a company that doesn’t exist anymore located in another country. Unfortunately I have experience with another software company that went bankrupt, another acquired it, lawsuits started all over the world, the acquisition deal was voided in some countries, and after one year the intellectual rights of the same piece of code were claimed by different companies in different countries, with clients in different different countries. I had some license passwords with one company and some with another… A nightmare. I prayed that they would go open source, but didn’t happen.
When I saw the announcement that Anvil was going open source I stopped worrying that my company relies on a little startup located in another country. I believe in the open source business models and I believe that being open source will help Anvil to grow faster and the clients to feel better about eventual doom scenarios.
My company is a startup and therefore I like to do business with companies like Anvil.works that are also startups.
However, my company’s clients are large industrial companies that own one or more plants.These companies require us to contractually guarantee the sustainability of our solutions, whether we stay in business or not.
This is why we add a very clear clause in our contracts which stipulates that in case of cessation of activities of our company, we commit ourselves to provide our customers with the source codes as well as the tools so that they can themselves continue to maintain and make evolve the solutions installed in their plants. Obviously, this clause prohibits our customers to resell the source codes and tools to an external company that could put on the market, on its own, the applications that we have developed.
Obviously, in order to honor this clause, we must also ask our suppliers to offer us the same protection. Currently, we use Microsoft technologies in our solutions.Obviously, the durability of Microsoft technologies over time is not in doubt for us or our customers, so this is perfectly acceptable to our customers.
In this context, we would have liked to see a clause in Anvil’s license document that for example would have indicated that Anvil commits to provide its current customers with the source code or executable of its application development platform (not just the local server) in case of termination of its activities only. This would have allowed us to fulfill our own commitment to our customers.
However, I understand that it is not your intention to do this. I find this unfortunate because I think you offer an excellent product and I would have liked to use it in our solutions. I am also convinced that this request will be made by other customers than me because large companies often require proof of sustainability when they do business with startups.
On that note, congratulations for the great product you have developed. Your solution is an incredible valorization of the Python language.
I don’t understand how that can possibly work.
Who is “ourselves”?
Is it your startup that they can’t sue because it doesn’t exist anymore?
Is it you that by now moved to another country and work for Google and have no interest in being nice to a company that can’t sue you because they can’t find you?
Is it the third company that acquired your startup and knows very well how to avoid those contract clauses, because that’s the very reason why their business is to acquire software companies without being tied to any liability? (being there, suffered that)
I think that your clients should get either a better legal advisors or get a good insurance
I understand that you want to comply with your client’s requests, but I like @meredydd 's honest answer better. He could let his clients believe that a clause in the contract will cover them, and maybe charge for it, instead he says clearly: “a contract like that isn’t enforcible!”
To be clear, we do offer robust contractual continuity protection (via escrow) for customers who need legally guaranteed access to (eg) the Anvil Editor in case a meteor hits Cambridge.
If this is you, please drop us a line at sales@anvil.works and we’ll get you a quote!
